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Hope Channel

InVerse 1st Quarter 2024: Jesus & Liberty

Sikhu Daco

Justin Kim

Israel Ramos

Jonathan Walter

01 Political Hopes Dashed

Coming to you from Silver Spring, Maryland, welcome to Inverse, a Bible-based conversation on life principles, contemporary issues, and thought-provoking perspectives.

Now here's your host, Justin Kim, with Inverse.

Hey everyone, my name is Justin Kim, and you're on Inverse, and we are so happy that you are with us, whether it's by podcast, or for video, or on social media.

We are in the studio right here at this round table, And we have my friends, Jonathan.

And as we do, we are going to study the Bible.

We want to encourage you to get your Bibles out, whether it's digital or per paper, and also get the Bible study guide.

You can go to inversebible.org, and you can look at the Bible study guide.

There's a lot there, we've been doing this for, I don't know, how long, 7 years, 8 years, 6 years?

You know that you sound old when you start kinda trying to find out how many years we've been doing this.

And there's a lot of good Bible study topics.

So starting this week in this episode and for the next 12 episodes we're gonna be looking at the topic of Jesus and liberty.

So Siku let's have a word of prayer and then we'll get into the Bible text today.

Loving Father, we're thankful that we can come together to study your word.

What a blessing it is to fellowship with the infinite mind of God as we open scripture.

We ask that the Holy Spirit would be our teacher now that he would lead us into all understanding and that you would guide our conversation Lord as we delve into this topic that is precious to your heart, the topic of liberty.

We pray that you'd bless us now in your name, Amen.

I don't know about you guys, but when we talk about a different topic if it's like the book of the Bible I get really excited and whatever.

It's like, you know, if Ecclesiastes or Ephesians or like, you know Amos, you know, we haven't done that yet.

But when we get into topics, it's a little bit like oh no I don't know how it's gonna go.

And I don't know about you guys out there, but topics get, we get a little anxious, so we are gonna depend on each other, on the Bible, on the Holy Spirit, and also you, your interaction with us, just to see how we're processing and digesting this material.

Siku prayed for about the topic of liberty, and that's what we're talking about.

I want to ask Jonathan, when you hear the word liberty, what are just some like immediate pop connections that you get?

Just just let's go like totally random or we'll zone into scripture.

I don't know if it's pop, but definitely the Statue of Liberty is the first thing that pops into my mind.

I just thought of that and the associations you have with that.

And as a European who has transferred over to the free world, I'm just kidding.

No, but just this idea of the free world versus the, I guess, non-free world.

Although, that can also depend on perspective.

Some people in a non-free world wouldn't call us free and the other way around, but that's something that popped into my mind.

Yeah, I think of, before our conversation, we talked about Liberty Mutual Insurance Company that some of you may have, and there's someone on our panel that does not like them and so we're not endorsing them.

I've been traveling, you guys, recently and I visited Southeast Asia and there's 1 country there, they said that we have, and I don't know if I got this right.

And if I don't, you guys can correct me wrong.

But we have religious liberty, but we don't have religious freedom.

And I was like, well, isn't that the same thing?

And in this particular country, they do have religious freedom.

They can worship the way they want and whatever, but they don't have liberty because every time they have a sermon or a program, whatever, they need to go to the government and have it approved and filtered.

And once filtered, they can do whatever with that.

And something that we in the free world may not always appreciate.

We think it's all, that's all the, it's all, we kind of put it in the box, it's all the same.

But there's a lot of countries where there's neither, or you have 1 or the other, or it's a little bit nuanced.

Let's go to Luke chapter 9, Luke chapter 9, in verse 43 to 56.

And starting in this episode, and from this lesson, from lesson 1 to episode 8 or 9, we're looking at the Jesus's principles on religious liberty.

And each episode has a particular principle that we want to extract.

So in Luke chapter 9, verse 43 through 56, and Israel, can you read starting reading from 43?

Sure it says, Jesus did, he said to his disciples, let these words sink down into your ears, for the Son of Man is about to be betrayed into the hands of men.

But they did not understand this saying, and it was hidden from them so that they did not perceive it, And they were afraid to ask him about this saying.

Then a dispute arose among them as to which of them would be the greatest.

And Jesus, perceiving the thought of their heart, took a little child and set him by him, and said to them, whoever receives this little child in my name, receives me, and whoever receives me, receives him who sent me.

For he who is least among you all will be great.

Now John answered and said, master, we saw someone casting out demons in your name, and we forbade him because he does not follow with us.

But Jesus said to him, do not forbid him for he who is not against us is on our side.

Now it came to pass when the time had come for him to be received up that he steadfastly set his face to go to Jerusalem, and sent messengers before his face, and they went.

They entered a village of the Samaritans to prepare for him, but they did not receive him because his face was set for the journey to Jerusalem.

And when Jesus' disciples, James and John, saw it, they said, Lord, do you want us to command fire to come down from heaven and consume them just as Elijah did?

But he turned and rebuked them and said, you do not know what manner of spirit you are of.

For the Son of Man did not come to destroy men's lives, but to save them, and they went to another village.

All right, so this episode is called The Spirit of Christ.

Even when you were reading it, Israel, I mean, there's just a lot of stuff that, even before our preparation, some lessons are coming out.

We could have just chosen really any passage, right?

Any passage in the gospels that talk about the spirit of Christ.

This passage has some particular elements that link with religious liberty.

The first question is, did Jesus ever really talk about religious liberty like directly and like, you know, the kingdom of God is religious liberty.

Did he ever say it outright and forth, forth, forth, with, with, forthcomingly.

I feel like he actually says the opposite Because he will he says, you know, he was against religious liberty.

No, no, but he will he he never proclaimed like religious liberty as the Goal for everything.

Oh, it's more like hey if you're faithful, you will be persecuted.

So in a way, he's like, yeah, religious liberty, he didn't use those words, obviously, but he does talk about the fact that there will be persecution and that you can expect issues if you're faithful to God and in your fear in his kingdom.

So in a way he doesn't really promise religious liberty as you know something all that that you know that's what you need and that's what you're gonna have it's more like actually the opposite will take.

That's an interesting take I've never thought of but Jesus does talk about persecution a lot.

I think when we're talking about religious liberty, it's probably good for us to kind of set the context of what does it mean to have religious liberty.

And I think when we're talking about religious liberty within this context, we're talking about the human right to be able to worship or not worship whoever or whatever we want to worship, right?

Yeah, I like that nuance to ability to worship but also not to worship, to have the liberty to do that, to have the choice to do that.

And so when we think about religious liberty within the context of a human right.

02 Political Hopes Dashed

My name's Justin and you are watching a awesome Bible study show about religious liberty, at least for this quarter, the next 13 weeks and whatnot.

And the 2 of you are not as lovely, so I didn't use that adjective with you.

And we have also you guys out there, and we are super excited looking at the topic of Jesus and liberty, Jesus and religious liberty, Jesus and politics.

We're gonna look at the gospels and look at vignettes and scripture and what he actually is teaching.

And I love this show because it's a Bible study show, but it's not just talking about Bible and theology for Bible's sake, but there's actually real life applications that when I go home, and even as host of this show, it impacts how I treat my wife, how I treat my children, and how I treat my goldfish that I don't have.

So we need to be mindful that this isn't just theory, but this is actually real life practical stuff.

So we're gonna have a word of prayer, and Israel, can you pray for us, and then we'll jump to Luke chapter 5 afterwards.

Father in heaven, thank you for this opportunity that we have to study your word.

We pray that the spirit of God that inspired it would also be the 1 that speaks to us, that guides our conversations, and that touches our minds to be able to see things the way you see them.

Luke chapter 5, proper Bible study needs the Bible.

It's in Luke chapter 5, verse 27 through 39.

And while my friends are turning to there, we want to also encourage you to go download the Bible study guide.

You can go to inversebible.org and look up Jesus and liberty and follow along with us.

We are on episode 2, lesson 2, and we're looking at political hopes dashed, political hopes dashed.

Let's read scripture in Jonathan verse, I think it was at 27 and onward, please.

After these things, he went out and saw a tax collector named Levi sitting at the tax office.

So he left all, rose up and followed him.

Then Levi gave him a great feast in his own house.

And there was a great number of tax collectors and others who sat down with him.

And their scribes and the Pharisees complained against his disciples saying, why do you eat and drink with tax collectors and sinners?

Jesus answered and said to them, those who are well have no need of a physician, but those who are sick.

I have not come to call the righteous, but sinners to repentance.

Then they said to him, why do the disciples of John fast often and make prayers and likewise those of the Pharisees, but yours eat and drink?

And he said to them, can you make the friends of the bridegroom fast while the bridegroom is with them?

But the days will come when the bridegroom will be taken away from them.

No 1 puts a piece from a new garment on an old 1, otherwise the new makes a tear, and also the piece that was taken out of the new does not match the old.

And no 1 puts new wine into old wineskins, or else the new wine will burst the wineskins and be spilled, and the wineskins will be ruined.

But new wine must be put into new wineskins, and both are preserved.

And no 1 having drunk old wine immediately desires new, for he says the old is better.

Siku, what are some things that you see from this passage regarding, we've been looking at, we looked at Luke chapter, what is it, 9 last quarter, last episode, and we're looking at Luke chapter 5.

We establish that Jesus doesn't say, this is religious liberty and this is liberty, but we see that elements are weaving in through a lot of his messages.

The first section that we read where he picks Levi, who is a tax collector, to be 1 of his disciples.

I mean, that in and of itself is striking.

Given the position that the Israelites had, being under the yoke of the Romans, having a tax collector on his team was kind of a blow to any kind of nationalism that the Israelites felt.

There's no 1 who'd want to be oppressed, but they were under oppression.

And then tax collectors kind of represented this class of Israelite who had sympathies, I guess, with the Romans because they were benefiting from the system, from the way that things were set up.

And then Jesus invites that person to be on his team.

So that's 1, the first thing that struck me is this probably would have been pretty offensive to a lot of people.

Just to counterbalance that, you have in Luke chapter 6, verse 15, you have disciples being mentioned.

In chapter 6, verse 15, you have Matthew and Thomas, James, the son of Alphaeus, and Simon called the zealot.

So you mentioned Levi, the tax collector, you brought it on out.

He's a Republican, not in terms of the political party, but he believes in the Republic, the Empire, he's a servant of, he's a nationalist.

And then you have Simon the Zealot, who is, Zealot, there were assassins and they were terrorists of their day, and so you got, you know, Al Qaeda, you know, terrorist group, And then you got an IRS agent, you got CIA, both on your team going to the same church.

Like that's kind of, I mean, I'm stretching out.

What does it reveal about Christ's ministry?

He tears down borders and boundaries that we artificially make up as humans.

He shows that all are welcome, all who desire freedom, all who desire healing are welcome.

And Jesus had, you know, as the son of God, the ability to see that in people right away.

And he saw in, you know, in Levi and Matthew, like he is a man.

Yeah, he may have, you know, allegiance to the Roman empire to some degree because it benefits him, But at his heart, he's looking for healing.

And in the same way he saw that, you know, with Zimnah Zealot, who is zealous for his nationalistic ideas, but he saw that his heart wants to serve God and the 2 are both welcome.

And even the other disciples, I mean, it's just a mix of everything as far as education and wealth.

And so what we see here is the beauty of Jesus tearing down these artificial labels or these casts, whatever you want to call them, these levels of society, these levels of education and whatever degree you have, it doesn't matter because at the core, we're all human beings in the need of Christ.

And so what that tells us today is that you may have affiliations and things you identify yourself with that are artificially created human systems, whatever it is, political parties, celebrities, whatever you identify with, but at the end of the day, sports teams, all these things, some people have a lot of passion for what they identify with, But at the end of the day, you know, sports teams, all these things, some people have a lot of passion for what they identify with, but at the end of the day, these things do not matter in the eyes of God.

And when we go against each other, so to say, because you're on 1 team, I'm on the other, we are really not exemplifying the law of Christ.

I think of, he said beauty, the beauty of Christ welcoming all.

But I think too of the attractiveness of Christ to attract all.

Individuals at such broad ends of the spectrum, you know, they're as different as they come in terms of like what drives them and motivates them.

But Jesus is attractive to all of them, which comes as a rebuke for me in terms of what kind of people do I attract in terms of my personality, my character, is do I have Christ's appeal for people from all different backgrounds, from different political affiliations, people see who have this zeal for the government or anti-government, but what was it in Jesus that regardless of what they thought and regardless of national pride, Jesus was attractive to all these people and having an attractive Christianity.

No, hey, your question brings me a lot of, makes me think, it's great, let's test, you know, our communities or the fellowship of friends that we have?

Is it just the like-minded people that we have?

Like I guess just from thinking out loud, if we are too uniform of 1 kind of people that we're hanging out with, that's an indication of something wrong.

If everyone around us is Democratic, if everyone is Republican, if everyone is Black, if everyone around us is Asian or White, if everyone around us is 1 mono-group.

There's something that's indicative of something.

03 Dealing with Dissenters

My name is Justin and we are in the studio and we're super excited to talk about Jesus and the Bible and the topic that we are in in this 13 arc, timeframe that we're in is on the topic of Jesus and liberty.

We wanna encourage you to go to hopetv.org slash inverse, and you can look at the previous 2 episodes that we looked at religious liberty principles in the 4 gospels.

And this episode, we're looking at how to deal with those who disagree with you, dissenters.

So in the studio, we have Jonathan, and we got Siku, and we have the lovely Israel.

And we're gonna have a word of prayer, and we'll get into Matthew chapter 13.

Heavenly Father, we thank you so much for this opportunity to study the word again.

I pray that your spirit will lead us, guide us, teach us, and direct us, but not just us, but everyone watching, listening as well.

And Lord, we wanna know you better, we wanna know you more.

And so we pray all these things in the name of Jesus.

You know, I really appreciate studying the Bible with you guys.

I'm going to say this to all of you out there that we do have preliminary discussions about some of these episodes, but we actually don't study like in depth and then, and then talk about verbatim what we talked about on the recording.

We actually come to scripture live and then there's insights that we come up with that from scripture that are really powerful.

I think with this topic, there was a temptation that I was afraid of that, oh man, we're gonna maybe impose, well not impose, but bring up personal politics.

But so far in the last 2 episodes, so far it could still happen I guess.

There's some really cool Jesus principles that came up in a personal challenge and just really, really insightful.

So I wanna say thank you to the 3 of you, but also praise the Lord.

And hopefully if this has been a blessing to you guys out there, we wanna hear your comments and just share on social media or by smoke signal on how you have been blessed.

I've been privileged to travel to many places and I just wanna say a quick hi to all of you guys in the Philippines and in Malaysia and in Singapore and Indonesia.

We have a huge viewer watcher base out there through social media and through our videos there.

And you guys have sent your encouragement and you guys are studying the Bible study guides.

By the way, if you don't know what I'm talking about, you can go to inversebible.org and look up Jesus and liberty and study along with us.

So I'll stop talking, but I wanted to say hi to you all out there.

And we're going to go to Matthew chapter 13.

And Siku, can you read from verse 20, where should we read?

Another parable he put forth to them saying, The kingdom of heaven is like a man who sowed good seed in his field.

But while men slept, his enemy came and sowed tares among the wheat and went his way.

But when the grain had sprouted and produced a crop, then the tares also appeared.

So the servants of the owner came and said to him, Sir, did you not sow good seed in your field?

The servants said to him, Do you want us then to go and gather them up?

But he said, no, lest while you gather up the tares, you also uproot the wheat with them.

Let both grow together until the harvest.

And at the time of harvest, I will say to the reapers, first gather together the tares and bind them in bundles to burn them, but gather the wheat into my barn." Okay, let's stop there and let's go to skip to verse 36 and see if you can pick up verse 36.

Then Jesus sent the multitude away and went into the house.

And his disciples came to him saying, Explain to us the parable of the tares of the field.

He answered and said to them, He who sows the good seed is the Son of Man.

The good seeds are the sons of the kingdom, but the tares are the sons of the wicked 1.

The harvest is the end of the age, and the reapers are the angels.

Therefore, as the tares are gathered and burned in the fire, so it will be at the end of this age.

The Son of Man will send out His angels, and they will gather out of his kingdom all things that offend and those who practice lawlessness and Will cast them into the furnace of fire There will be wailing and gnashing of teeth Then the righteous will shine forth as the Sun in the kingdom of their father he who has ears to hear let him hear All right.

Thank you Israel like the Tell us about this parable is a parable about wheat and wheat and tears.

As as SIG was reading this, I was getting a justification from my own garden.

My wife sends me out to go weed the garden.

I said, let the, let the, let the tares grow.

And then at the end we will, we will, we will separate them.

You know, so when you walk into my garden, it is wheat and tares.

So just a note out there that this is a, an egregious usage of scripture to herself interest.

And this is now really we're promoting here at Inverse.

So what is happening is the question is being asked, why is it that good and bad people both exist in this world?

And the answer is that God should take people that are anti him and immediately delete them out of the face of the earth.

But God says, no, there's a time at the end of the age when this will happen.

And there's a reason why God allows sometimes, why he allows the wheat and the tares to grow.

And that's because if you were to eliminate the, the tears, If you were to take all the bad people out of the world all at once It would also have an impact on the righteous people That do not understand yet the extent of the story and so God in his wisdom says let these come forth at the same time And then there will be a time when there will be a clean delineation between both classes of people when there is the full maturity of the plant.

What is it in human nature that wants to take the tears out?

I think it has to do with self-justification.

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