SWYC 2011: Lest We Forget

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GYC Southwest

Adventist History Nugget: Issues from 1888

Dave Fiedler

Issues from 1888, Part 1

I have the privilege of trying to at least interest you in the events and the circumstances and the history of 1888 in 3 brief sections throughout this day.

So we're going to start at the beginning.

You could write a whole book on it and sometimes it seems like everyone who's anyone in Adventism has already done that but We won't be able to encompass everything today, but we're going to start with the beginning.

If a person is sick the spirit prophecy tells us that the first thing to do is to ascertain the true character of the sickness And then go to work intelligently to remove the cause.

Trying to treat something other than the real cause of a sickness is just a bad idea.

That's a sensible approach when it comes to physical health.

I think it's a sensible approach when it comes to spiritual health.

And so we're going to try a diagnosis first of all now fortunately Ellen white makes that fairly simple for us Because she's done that for us This is the classic statement She says now it has been Satan's purpose determined purpose To eclipse the view of Jesus and lead man to look to man and trust to man and be educated to expect help from man This is a serious problem Simply put people are going to let you down.

Even when they try to do the best for you, right?

If you are, notice the wording there, she says educated, if you are educated to expect help from man, you're going to be disappointed When you find out how completely incapable people are when it comes to helping you when you really need it the most.

Hopefully, as a result of that, you'll be disappointed in your education and you'll go looking for a better approach to life.

But, the statement goes on, so we will continue.

For years, she says, the church has been looking to man and expecting much from man, but not looking to Jesus in whom our hopes of eternal life are centered.

Looking to man is not only a bad idea because man cannot help you in the end, but because it takes your attention off of Jesus.

At 1 level or another, this is probably an obvious idea, obvious observation to all of us, but some of you are thinking, that's nice, but what has this got to do with 1888, and righteousness by faith, and Jones and Wagner, and all that related stuff?

Well, that's what the next sentence is all about.

Ellen White continues, same quotation here.

She says, Therefore God gave to his servants, elders Jones and Wagner, A testimony that presented the truth as it is in Jesus.

This is so basic to the history of the last what's it been?

123 years now since 1888 that If you miss out on this relationship, you're going to just be utterly and hopelessly confused.

That's my opinion at least Note the detail here the word therefore We lose a mic that would happen Okay Can you hear me anyhow should I go on?

Okay, that's what diaphragms are for This one's good audio verse.

Technology is so wonderful when it works.

The patient was dying of malnutrition, therefore the doctor recommended a change in diet.

Let me suggest that any explanation of 1888 message that doesn't recognize the basic illness being treated is probably not going to be very helpful.

The problem is that church members were looking to man instead of looking to Jesus.

He sent 2 ministers with a testimony about Jesus.

If you want people to focus on Jesus, you tell them something about Jesus that will get their attention, right?

Notice that this message of Jones and Wagner's was, continuing the sentence there, the third angel's message in clear distinct lines.

To say that their teaching on righteousness by faith was the third angels message is a very strong endorsement especially within Adventist circles Okay Let's read another 1 of Ellen White's statements.

It's even a little more emphatic on this.

She says, some of our brethren have expressed fears that we shall dwell too much upon the subject of justification by faith.

But I hope and pray that none will be needlessly alarmed for there is no danger in presenting this doctrine as it is set forth in the Scriptures if there had not been a remissness In the past to properly instruct the people of God there would not now be a necessity of calling a special attention to it Okay in this passage.

No White calls Jones and Wagner's teaching Justification by faith just note that much for more we read a little bit more now Satan has cast his own dark shadow between us and our God that we may not see the true character of God.

The Lord has proclaimed himself to be merciful and gracious, long-suffering, and abundant in goodness and truth." Now, remember the last quotation from Testimonies of Ministers.

It said, there it is, it has been Satan's determined purpose to eclipse the view of Jesus and lead man to look to man.

It's when something gets in the way of something else, right?

The moon gets in the way of the Sun or some such thing, okay?

Ellen White is using that as an illustration in both of these quotations.

And 1 she uses the eclipse, and the other 1 she says that Satan has cast his own dark shadow, okay.

What that means is that she's equating in 1 statement, She's equating man with Satan's dark shadow in the other statement.

Continuing this quotation again here now, she says, Several have written to me inquiring if the message of justification by faith is the third angel's message?

The idea that the 1888 message was the same as the third angel's message wasn't just a one-off idea.

It wasn't just something that just came popping up in Ellen White's mind 1 day This was enough of an issue that people were writing to her Saying is this the same thing Justification Justification by faith third angels message are they the same so she answered she wrote back and she said It is the third angels message in verity so my question is does that make any sense?

Could you explain how justification by faith is the third angel's message?

Tracks roomies on this Justification by faith is kind of a pleasant topic Here's an example a Little Bobby gets home 1 night and realizes he should not have taken those grapes from the grocery store without paying for them.

And so he takes his little handful of quarters, goes back to the grocery store, pays the nice grocery man, apologizes, goes home that night and prays for Jesus to forgive him for stealing those grapes.

And Jesus does, and Bobby goes to sleep that night with a clear conscience.

That's justification by faith, is it not?

When was the last time you read the third angel's message?

Now you heard it last night, okay The third angel's message is a little bit different than what we commonly think of as justification by faith Here it is just to refresh your Memories a little bit if anyone worship the beast in his image right where's he end up?

Okay I'm going to skip over that not because it's a verse.

I'm ashamed of but because the time here Maybe I'm focusing too much on minor details.

It seemed a bit negative but The threat of eternal torment.

I know it's not eternal right, but you know the threat of forever and ever torment does not sound as pleasant to me as the idea of justification by faith the way I usually think of it.

Imagine for a moment that you are a raw recruit in the Army.

You are a private, the lowest guy on the totem pole.

1 day, your friendly drill sergeant asks to have a word with you, And it goes something like this.

Issues from 1888, Part 2

Some of you may be new, weren't here an hour or so ago.

I have 3 brief snippets about 1888, and this is the second 1.

By the way, if you are interested in that sort of thing, I'd ask you to come to the Chaparral room at the breakout session, and then to give a generous donation to AudioVerse for providing you the privilege of hearing the other speakers at your leisure later on.

We hoped, And the question is, would another coming out be needed?

The General Conference session of 1888 is not a simple event to understand.

A lot of people have spent time doing that.

I think it's safe to say that no 1 has it all figured out.

Perhaps we should not feel too bad about that.

Even Ellen White, who was there herself and obviously had more insight into the thinking and the actions and whatnot of individuals than anyone else, she described it like this.

She said it was an incomprehensible tug of war.

So it's no surprise that we have a hard time understanding what all happened back then.

Many things happened, and so this is just going to be, as I say, a snippet.

Let's just note that Ellen White did have many sort of unflattering things to say about the turn of events there.

We have spirit of persecution, un-Christ-likeness, false ideas, forsake, prejudice, and criticism.

People were out of line, they were cultivating hatred, there was a satanic work, it was a latest in church, and they did despot to the spirit of grace.

This is a problem, and if nothing else, it tells us that there is plenty of tension and literary conflict in the story.

Right now, I want to focus on 1 comment that Ellen White wrote actually about 7 months, 6, 7 months, something like that, after the Minneapolis Conference.

I was confirmed in all I had stated in Minneapolis that a reformation must come through the churches, must go through the churches, excuse me.

Reforms must be made for spiritual weakness and blindness whereupon the people who had been blessed with great light and precious opportunities and privileges.

As reformers, they had come out of the denominational churches, but they now act apart similar to that which the churches acted.

We hoped that there would not be the necessity for another coming out.

She's talking about her experience at Minneapolis and then also in the church at Battle Creek following the conference.

Obviously, it's the last sentence there that catches your attention, right?

What does she mean by another coming out?

Was she really implying that the Seventh-day Adventist Church was in danger of losing its standing of God's unique church?

Was she saying that a purer group of believers might have to separate from it?

Well, in context, it's really pretty hard to understand the comment to be any other way.

She talks about how they had come out from the denominational churches.

And then she says, uses the exact same terminology later on, she says, we hope there would not be another coming out.

In fact, that's the way the White estate understands the comment.

When that particular manuscript was used in the book, Last Day Events, they inserted an explanatory note which says, this is the only known statement from the Pan of Ellen White indicating that she might have lost confidence in the Seventh-day Adventist church organization.

The doubt which she expressed here was never repeated during the remaining 26 years of her life.

I don't have any qualms to make with that.

But There is a little bit more to the story, which we can toss in here.

In 1888, there were actually 2 series of meetings.

There was a 10-day ministerial institute, which preceded the general conference session proper.

Wagner had his presentations on Galatians began during the 10-day Ministerial Institute.

And the problems erupted rather quickly coming out of that.

On the last day of that ministerial institute, Ellen White spoke, and she made a very strongly worded statement that indicates something at least a little bit like her coming out statement that she made some months later.

Now, speaking to the assembled ministers, she says, now this is the last ministers meeting we will have, unless you wish to meet together yourselves.

If the ministers will not receive the light, I want to give the people a chance.

Well, that's not exactly the same as the another coming out comment, but it's unusual enough in its own regard.

It seems to me that she is, I don't really like the word, so I'll put it in quotes, you know, but she's threatening, if you wish, to bypass the organizational structure of the church, to go around the unreceptive ministering and make an effort to reach the rank and file church members directly.

Well, in fact, that's pretty much what she did.

For a year and a half after the Minneapolis meeting, Ellen White traveled from place to place with Jones and Wagner, holding meetings wherever they seemed to be welcome and there was not obvious resistance.

And all the time she was doing that dealing with, what should we say, kind of opposition coming from Battle Creek, okay.

Now, in order to appreciate the magnitude of Ellen White doing what she did in bypassing the ministry, you have to remember all the effort that she and her husband James had put into trying to get the church organized in the first place.

Organization is 1 of those things that ideally you don't notice until it goes bad and then it's bad.

But if you don't have it at all it's bad.

From the passing of the time in 1844 until the church was organized in 1863, it was 19 years.

That's older than some of the people out here.

19 years, And Ellen White lived through every disorganized episode during that time period, okay?

Looking back on those earlier days, she summed it up like this.

As our numbers increased, you know, church members increased, it was evident that without some form of organization, there would be great confusion.

And the work would not be carried forward successfully.

To provide for the support of the ministry, for carrying the work in new fields, for protecting both the churches and the ministry from unworthy members, for holding church property, for the publication of the truth through the press, and for many other objects, organization was indispensable.

Ellen White valued organization, there's no question on that.

That's why it's pretty amazing when she talked about, and actually did to some degree, bypass and go around an element of that.

Even after 30 years of time from the organizing period of the church, shall we say, she had this to say, we had a hard struggle in establishing an organization.

So to be seen pulling away from the ministry or bypassing the ministry as a class had to be what we would call a big deal to her.

But evidently, because she was a logical person and didn't do things foolishly on a whim, the issues she saw coming out of Minneapolis were significant enough that she unhesitatingly took the route that she did when she spent that year and a half.

It provides a sense of scale and perspective to the conversation, the whole exploration of 1888 that sometimes gets lost in theology.

Ellen White wrote, we hoped that there would not be a necessity for another coming out.

That's the only time she said something like that.

But she also spoke of bypassing the ministers and taking a populist approach.

And in fact, she spent a year and a half doing that.

Okay, now here's where it gets interesting.

It turns out that though she never again spoke of another coming out, there was 1 more situation in which she spoke of bypassing not only ministers, but even conference presidents.

More interestingly, it was not something simply that she was going to do, but something which she said laymen should do.

She said, There is enough wealth in your conference, writing to a conference president, There is enough wealth in your conference to carry forward this work successfully.

And shall the prince of darkness be left in undisputed possession of our great cities because it costs something to sustain missions?

Let those who would follow Christ fully come up to the work, even if it be over the heads of ministers and president.

What she's talking about here is a failure of some leaders to take up and encourage what she called gospel medical missionary evangelism in the large cities within our conferences.

Here's another statement in which Ellen White first addresses the leaders and then rank and file church members on the same subject here, gospel, medical, missionary, evangelism.

She says, if you feel no interest in the work that is going forward, if you will not encourage medical missionary work in the churches, it will be done without your consent.

For it is the work of God, and it must be done.

My brethren and sisters, take your position on the Lord's side, and be earnest, active, courageous co-workers of Christ, laboring with Him to seek and save the lost.

Now there's a subtle indication here of the gravity of this issue in the comment there to take your position on the Lord's side.

It's Moses talking to the camp of Israel, standing, oh, someplace in the proximity of a golden calf.

Issues from 1888, Part 3

Okay, I get 1 last quick snippet in here.

Probably The single greatest question that comes out of the whole 1888 issue is what happened to the loud cry?

Allow me to recommend a fairly recently published book by Ron Duffield.

The title is The Return of the Loud Cry, and it's an excellent volume.

I'm not going to be covering all the same ground, but if you have any interest in those sort of things, I would recommend taking a look at it.

The landmark statement that establishes all this is this 1.

The time of test is just upon us, for The loud cry of the third angel has already begun in the revelation of the righteousness of Christ, the sin-pardoning Redeemer.

This is the beginning of the light of the angel whose glory shall fill the whole earth.

I don't know exactly when it was written.

Ellen White was in Australia, so 1 would assume that there was probably a minimum of 6 weeks prior to that in order to get the article even over to the review.

This was not the first thing that gave indications that they were at the end of time.

There had been a lot of Sunday Law agitation.

There were Adventists who had been arrested and things like this.

And so it wasn't hard to believe that something might be coming along.

But this comment from Ellen White was different.

It wasn't just another 1 of the, the world is getting terrible comments.

This 1 was, God's people are doing something right.

The comment from Ellen White stirred up the pure minds of the saints, and it still does today.

In its simplest form, the basic question is, what happened to the loud cry?

And the basic answers are either, the loud cry is continuing today, or something stopped it.

Well, we're going to approach this through the, perhaps the experience of 1 individual who was at the Minneapolis Conference, and better than that, he was converted there.

That's a pretty good thing, experiencing justification and conversion at Minneapolis, He was born again.

Kellogg was a converted man, and we all knew it.

We could see the converting power of God working in his heart and life.

Ellen White is saying this now when she wrote this, it was what, 19, or didn't write it, when she said it at the general conference session in 1903, it had been, what, 15 years or some such, but she spoke like it, she remembered it pretty well.

Kellogg was a converted man, everybody could see it.

So that raises an interesting question, to me at least, and that is how did they know he was converted?

Kellogg hadn't exactly been the town drunk or anything.

I mean, you know, he was the medical director of the sanitarium.

He was a church member in good and regular standing.

So what was different after Minneapolis that let them know that he was converted?

Ellen White wrote, while the believer is justified because of the merit of Christ, he is not free to work on righteousness.

Faith works by love and purifies the soul.

Faith buds and blossoms and bears a harvest of precious fruit.

The sick are visited, the poor are cared for, the fatherless and the widows are not neglected.

The naked are clothed, the destitute are fed.

Now according to that statement, that's what happens when a person's converted.

Kellogg was not a little idea kind of a guy.

And so even though by that time he'd already adopted what?

Well, I'm not sure how many he'd adopted, but he was raising something like about 18 kids at that point.

He concluded that the Adventist Church probably needed to start an orphanage.

We had at least 200 orphans scattered around North America, but we didn't have an orphanage.

So he approached Ellen White and said, What do you think about an orphanage?

She said, well actually she wrote this letter back to Battle Creek.

She said, Dear Brethren, while in Petoskey, Michigan, I had some conversation with your physician-in-chief in regard to establishing a home for orphaned children at Battle Creek.

I said that this was just what was needed among us as a people and that in enterprises of this kind, we were far behind other denominations.

Okay, I'm gonna keep the story short here and just simply say that the idea of the orphanage didn't get a lot of support.

They started a small orphanage and a home off a ways away from the sanitarium.

And there wasn't a lot of money coming in.

Kellogg was on the committee that was managing it, or the board of directors, or whatever it was precisely.

There was another idea that went along with it too, and that was a home for worthy, poor, but neglected, aged Adventists.

And that idea was getting even less support.

And then, in a remarkable manner, something that had never before been seen by the Adventist Church, the orphanage got a shot in the arm.

Carolyn Haskell came as a guest to the sanitarium.

Impressed by what she had seen, she asked Dr.

Kellogg if there were any special needs toward which she might donate.

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Adventist History Nugget: Issues from 1888

Issues from 1888, Part 3

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Parent Series

Parent Conference

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Recorded

Attachments

OYC 2011 Plenary Meetings

United Work or the Worst Evil

57m

ASI 2012 Seminar: Evangelism

Gospel-Medical Evangelism: 1891-1900 and Today

1h 9m

Dave Fiedler: Core of the Controversy

Kellogg - Lend to the Lord

1h 15m

GYC 2012 Seminar: Stories for the End of Time - Forgotten Episodes of Adventist History

Diverging Paths

1h 11m

GYC 2012 Seminar: Stories for the End of Time - Forgotten Episodes of Adventist History

Let’s Be Practical

54m

Dave Fiedler: Core of the Controversy

Kellogg: So Close, So Far

1h 5m

The Loud Cry and Christ’s Method Alone

57m

ECYC 2012: Plenary Sessions

A Special Work of Reform

54m

Which Gospel?

Which Gospel? Part 1

58m

Sound Doctrine