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Michigan Conference of Seventh-day Adventists

Talking Points 2nd Quarter 2025: Allusions, Images, Symbols: How to Study Bible Prophecy

Kameron DeVasher

Mark Howard

01 Some Principles of Prophecy

I'm Cameron DeBasia and I'm Mark Howard and this is Talking Points.

We're launching into a new study series right now.

Hard to believe 3 months are already behind us now and we're into this study series on a topic this time.

Not a specific book of the Bible, but the title is Illusions, Images, Symbols.

And the tagline is how to study Bible prophecy.

So we're gonna be looking at obviously the books of Daniel and Revelation and look at the imagery and where...

I'm envious because you have a sweater today and I because we're recording this in January what was it 13 on the old Mercury today but I figured it's for April so you know it's gonna be I don't know is it awkward to see somebody in a sweater when you just like it's April why is it so I'm guessing and now I'm envious because I'm like I should have worn my sweater, because it's still chilly here in Michigan.

Well, maybe next week for an episode, you can wear a sweater and just switch it up.

But I repent of that envy, and the Lord is going to be with us here as we dive into this fantastic quarter on...

Yes, illusions, images, symbols, how to interpret or how to study Bible prophecy.

Yes, that little, down there at the bottom, that really little, that's really what we're dealing with is how to study Bible prophecy this quarter.

Right, and I have not already gone through all the week's lessons ahead, but we're starting to study into this lesson series, and there's going to be some, I think, very powerful, interesting, and relevant stuff we're gonna cover.

Actually you, Pastor Howard, put together this week's talking points and outlined our lesson study for us so let me start off with a word of prayer, pass the baton to you, and you can open up this new study series for us.

Dear Heavenly Father, thank you so much for your word and for specifically Bible prophecy and the relevance and power and conviction it can bring to us right now.

And so Lord, help our study here of this lesson material to be good.

Help it to inform our teachers and class participants so that local Sabbath school experience can be rich and beneficial as well, and let all of us understand you, see you more clearly, and by your grace become like you as we look forward to your soon return.

So even diving into this lesson, I was thinking a little bit, you and I just completed a training at our biggest Academy here in Michigan, and it was a real blessing.

We were there for the whole week with the students, and 1 of the things we touched on was our prophetic message.

And I remember hearing from 1 of the students as they were asking certain highlights of the particular day that we covered the importance of prophecy, that the response was, you know, I'd gotten to the point where I just kind of thought, you know, why do we always dwell on prophecy and it just seems to be so exclusive and or whatever.

I don't want to put words in the students' mouth, But the takeaway as we looked at some things was a renewed interest in prophecy, and the students said, yeah, this is something I now I'm more interested in, I want to study more of, and I feel like as Seventh-day Adventists because many of us grow up with these prophetic messages, we don't realize the power and how they impact the hearer, and God's whole design in giving the prophetic message.

For example, you know, Jesus said in John 13, 19, I tell you these things before they happen so that when they come to pass, you'll know that I am He.

That's really a reflection on Isaiah 46, 9 and 10, where the Lord says, I am God and there is no other.

I am God and there's none like me, declaring the end from the beginning and from ancient times, things that are not yet done.

So, you know, here's God saying, I'm unlike any other so-called God in this, that I can foretell the future.

And so, it's an evidence that God gives, and you see that when you work with people and you share the prophetic message, you see the power and the impact it has, that wow, this is real and the Bible isn't just an ordinary book and there's a real God and he knows the future, But when we grow up with it, I feel like sometimes we don't Grasp the power in it.

Well an interesting mention growing up kids We did hear this training with young people at the Academy, but it wasn't just for the young people It was the staff to community members and what you realize between that training Emmanuel Institute training that we do or other in just out in church the world church world generally is that this isn't just interesting information for people who haven't heard it yet but it continues to be a rich field of study no matter how long you've been looking at it because this is This speaks to the heart and the mind of the Christian, of all people really, in a way that no other evidence really can.

And so the topic of Bible prophecy isn't just a starter thing that gets you to this point and now we're free from it.

It continues to be this ongoing field of study, and I'm very, very glad that the General Conference has put together this particular topic that we're gonna be studying, because it's not just for young kids, it's not just for new believers, it's for all of us to understand and appreciate and apply our prophetic message.

Absolutely, and as we get into today's lesson, I mean, my point in sharing all that is to say that there is...

That this is 1 of the most important aspects of a religious experience, 1 of the most important things we can study.

So somebody may say, oh, we're going to spend a quarter on learning how to study Bible prophecy.

Lord willing, you'll have interest in it as we dive into some of this and say, wow, this is something significant that for me and for those I would share the message with.

So I end a shout out to Great Lakes Adventist Academy.

Amen and to the students and the staff You know praise God our mission and our message is moving forward with a whole new generation Amen, amen, and maybe this will be the generation that sees the Lord come and we can be alive for it too by God's grace.

What are we looking at in this week's study?

Well, as we've talked about this already, but I actually took a lesson introduction from the teacher's edition of the Quarterly on page 3.

It says, we are going to study this quarter the theme of how to interpret Bible prophecy, specifically some of the allusions, stories, images, and metaphors that unlock prophetic truth and final events.

This week's lesson is some principles of prophecy and my takeaway is 3 talking points.

Talking point number 1 is prophecy is intended to be understood.

That's from Sunday and Monday's lesson and we'll get into that a little bit more in a moment.

Number 2, the Advent movement is a movement of prophecy, primarily from Tuesday's lesson.

And then, talking point number 3, right methods lead to right conclusions.

Well and that's honestly, talking about number 1 there and talking about number 3 kind of work together, this for some people this might be a radical idea that prophecy is intended to be understood or can be understood or there's ways you can do it so I'm really looking forward to this study.

So talking point number 1, prophecy is intended to be understood.

Well you know and maybe again this is if you talk to somebody outside the Adventist faith, not to say that Adventists aren't you know don't struggle with some prophecy but a lot of times we feel like we know it, more even sometimes than we do.

But if you study and talk prophecy with somebody in another denomination or non-denominational, oh, prophecy is mysterious and it can't be understood.

In fact a lot of people believe that ironically, as ironic as it sounds, that Revelation is a sealed book.

But there's a lot of people who, because of the symbolism and because of, oh, it's so hard to understand, maybe it's just not intended to be understood.

And so You've got half the people who will go with these exclusive because there isn't and we're gonna get into this But there isn't another denomination that preaches on the prophecies of the Bible besides the Adventist Church There are teachers you'll find teachers on YouTube and this and that, but you'll not find churches like the Baptists or the Methodists or the Presbyterians.

The comprehensive centrality of Bible prophecy.

And so, you know, you've got, you'll have half of the Christian world seeking out these elite teachers with their spin on it, and the other half just shrugging their shoulders and saying, I guess, you know, I just don't bother with the book of Revelation.

So we're gonna start a little broader with just the idea of spiritual things.

You have 1st Corinthians chapter 2 there.

Keep your Bible open there because we're gonna, first I just want you to read verse 14.

Says, but the natural man does not receive the things of the Spirit of God, for they are foolishness to him, nor can he know them because they are spiritually discerned." Okay, or discerned or understood.

So this is telling us that in our natural state, unaided by the Spirit of God, spiritual, we can't understand spiritual things.

So for a carnal, unconverted person not to understand Bible prophecy shouldn't be surprising.

It should be exactly what we should expect.

Anything in the Bible is going to be, it's not natural for us to understand it.

Now the Bible, the lesson rather, highlights the, it uses a number of different verses like this 1, for example, in Psalm 147 and verse 5, where it says of the Lord, Great is our Lord and mighty in power, His understanding is infinite.

And many like verses that just talk about how God's wisdom and understanding is so much greater than ours.

The Lord speaks in verses 8 and 9, for my thoughts are not your thoughts nor my ways your ways says the Lord for as the heavens are higher than the earth so are my ways higher than your ways and my thoughts than your thoughts.

Okay, just so just it you get spiritual things are spiritually understood God's thoughts are higher than our thoughts A lot of people would say right there, okay, there it is.

That's an opening case that we can't understand, not that we can.

And I'm glad to see you marked your pages there because it's interesting in those passages.

You're back in 1 Corinthians 2 where it says spiritual things are spiritually understood.

Let's look at the next 2 verses in that passage, verses 15 and 16.

02 The Genesis Foundation

I'm Cameron DeVasier and I'm Mark Howard and this is Talking Points.

We're going right through our second lesson now of illusions, images, symbols, how to study Bible prophecy and last week we just kind of set the framework.

Make sure readers are understanding that it's...

Yeah, not illusions, like it's trickery of some sort.

No, the point last week was that we can understand these things, right?

There's not an illusion, it's true, it's reality.

And now we're going to dive in this week's lesson into some of the symbols themselves and where they come from, how do we interpret them right from the Bible.

So I actually put this week's Talking Points together.

And so why don't you open up with a word of prayer and I'll walk through our lesson.

Heavenly Father we thank you for the messages of prophecy that give us a clear understanding of not just where we're heading but of who you are and what your purposes are for us here and in the hereafter.

We pray that you would bless our study, bless the teachers who are teaching this lesson, and may this be a, may it improve and enhance our ability to proclaim our God-given prophetic message to the world as we prepare for the coming of Jesus.

Before we get into our specific talking points this week, I thought I'd take a moment and just kind of walk through how we, or at least in this case I, put a talking points program together or the outline together.

And this is not, and we cannot emphasize this enough, we never intend to say, these are the talking points that you must follow or something like this but it's to demonstrate how 1 could approach the lesson in a teachable way right So when you take a look at this week's lesson, of course as we talked about in last week's lesson There are right methods and wrong methods Well, this is a recommended method that we practice here for how to well Well part of it, but we 1 of the things you're gonna get into is ending on a positive note which I think would be a right method.

But here in this week's lesson as every week does there are 7 days of study right and each day has a different topic or a different title to it and if you'll notice as you read through and 1 of the things I'd recommend that you do is you've recommended to read the Bible passages that are under consideration first of all just get your own mind straight on it and then what I like to do is I read through the whole lesson in 1 sitting to get the flow of thought not divided into different parts right And as you see the flow of thought in this week's lesson, it's very clear that Sabbath afternoon and Sunday are a really nice introduction and framework for the rest of the week's lesson.

It talks about how the concept of the first principle, how the things you see in the book of Revelation or other Bible prophecies, the symbols and images used, are really often just appropriations of earlier illusions and symbols that were already, or even realities that were, you know, become symbols in the book of Revelation.

And specifically this week's title is the Genesis Foundation, so how those root early in Scripture even all the way back to the book of Genesis.

Then for the rest of the week, whether it's Monday about God's love, Tuesday about the lamb, Wednesday about death, and finally Thursday about the serpent, it's 4 different themes or illustrations that are used in Bible prophecy that are rooted in the book of Genesis.

So you could say, well this week we've got 5 talking points.

We have the framework in Sabbath and Sunday and then you have 4 different illustrations.

And that's 1 way to look at it But what I noticed is that of the 4 illustrations given, 2 of them related to God, love and the lamb, and 2 of them related to Satan, the serpent and death, or death first and then the serpent, either way.

And that's where, and it ends with the serpent, And so the temptation to say, well, this is easy.

Sabbath and Sunday goes with the framework.

The next 2 days, Monday and Tuesday, go with the God imagery of the love and the lamb, and then there's the Satan imagery of the serpent and death.

And yes, that would work chronologically, but then I have to think, do I really want to land the lesson with the serpent and death?

So what I've done in this week's lesson is use those same 3, but I've moved the serpent and death earlier, not to prioritize them ahead of God's stuff, but to get them out of the way so we can land the plane, land the lesson on a positive note, how Christ is the central figure of Bible prophecy, that his love, his character is gonna be revealed in this, and that's where we wanna end with.

So as I'm thinking, I don't want to just say that I understand the lesson as a whole, or that I can then extract 3 distinct talking points out of it, but then arrange those talking points so that there's a flow of thought in my class where we're, yes, we're getting information and some of it's difficult about Satan and death, but it ends on a positive, affirming note, right, that we can leave rejoicing in the positive perspective.

And our viewers will probably note that if you, or maybe you haven't noticed it overtly, but we are intentional, 99% of our outlines will try to end on something that is positive.

There have been a couple of times I remember that it ended on more of a convicting theme or whatever else, which is not, which is nothing wrong with that, but we try to end on something that is a positive note that you will leave the students who have been learning that week to go away with a hopeful outlook.

And It goes to a deeper thing about the purpose of Sabbath school is not merely to inform, but by God's grace to transform, that this is an opportunity not just to convey information, but to actually call for decisions and make an appeal and stir the heart and so that people leave not only knowing more, exactly, they're going to go out and do something, they're convicted and we want to have an evangelistic soul winning approach to our study and not just an academic kind of a...

1 other thing I'd add to that is you know you were saying well I could make 5 talking points.

For those of you who are new to talking, if you've been around for a while and you've been watching Talking Points, I think 1 time I tried 4 and it's...

Yeah and of course there you have oftentimes have a little bit more time in your classes which is why we don't do like how we would teach a class here.

You'll have a little bit more time in your classes but that time goes quickly.

Our time is going quickly just talking about it.

So you want to keep your talking points fewer, it will help you to cover them more.

Exactly and that way if you have a short lesson you can just knock it out or if you have a longer time you can dive into it more but you're gonna cover the material.

So the introduction I wrote says this week's lesson focuses on the origin some of some of the key themes and symbols of Bible prophecy specifically those drawn from the book of Genesis.

So talking point number 1 God's Word is changeless and harmonious That comes like we mentioned from Sabbath and Sunday, it sets the framework for everything else we're gonna look at this week.

Talking point number 2, the prophetic themes and images about Satan are rooted in Genesis and this comes from Wednesday and Thursday so yes we intentionally put Wednesday and Thursday ahead of Monday and Tuesday to make it flow thematically.

Then talking point number 3 prophetic themes and imagery about God are rooted in Genesis as well and that comes from Monday and Tuesday.

We want to end on that faith-affirming positive note.

All right, so talking point number 1, God's Word is changeless and harmonious.

If there's 1 thing that the Bible is clear about repeatedly, Old and New Testament, is that God and his word do not change.

The lesson, 1 of the very first questions to ask on Sunday's lesson is to read Isaiah 40 verses 7 through 8, Malachi 3 6, Hebrews 13 8 and what you see is though over over the Word of God stands forever, the Lord does not change.

Over and over this this this truism is brought out that God is changeless, His Word is secure, eternal, and doesn't change.

Therefore, Accordingly then, Revelation, as just as part of God's Word, is not a separate standalone book but is part of Scripture and the culmination of Scripture.

So if it, If the word of God doesn't change and it includes this book of Revelation, then there is a continuity and a harmony to it.

It's not like the first 65 books were like this, and then there's this other book where God just did a whole different thing.

No, it's all part of the same flow of thought from Genesis to Revelation, even though it employs symbolic images, it's not disconnected from the rest of the Bible, and it doesn't take a different course than God had already outlined before.

There's harmony and continuity to this change in the Word of God.

Well, It's interesting how science and Revelation both are dependent on constants.

In other words, those constants, if you didn't have constants in the scientific world, how could you ever come up with a scientific observation that would be worth anything?

And so it is in Revelation, and this should give us confidence in being able to understand and interpret these things.

In fact there's a great statement there from Sabbath Afternoon paragraph 1, right?

1 of the key problems with modern interpretations of Bible prophecy such as in Revelation is that they fail to recognize the ancient roots of Revelation.

The author assumes a knowledge of the Old Testament, the author being John, and uses concepts that would have been well known to his audience.

So when John was writing the book of Revelation, and obviously he didn't just think these up, they were inspired of God, but God directed him to use symbols and imagery and allusions to things that people would have already been familiar with from the Word of God.

The expectation is, number 1, that when you get to the book of Revelation it being the last book you've read the books that came before it so you're familiarity there when it folks Sodom or Egypt or Jezebel or something like that it brings to mind that story So it's built with the assumption.

You've already read the rest of the Bible going up to it.

So much of an understanding is built on it.

I think of John 3 16, for God so loved the world that he gave his only begotten Son.

But the few verses before say, as Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness, so also.

So John is drawing from an experience there that if a person is familiar with the story, oh wow, it brings it to life.

What does that say though for so many of these places if a person is unfamiliar with those, here here, Whether it be in the Gospel of John or throughout the New Testament when the writers are drawing from Old Testament images and pictures Yeah, which interestingly is the same author as the book of Revelation the same way that he wrote John and it Yeah, the Gospel of John here and of course this simple statement from Acts the Apostles 585 Sister White writes in the Revelation all the books of the Bible meet and end.

So far from being a separate, obscure, odd thing, it's actually the culmination of scripture.

It's part of this harmonious, changeless whole.

And so that continuity helps us interpret Bible prophecy so much easier.

The Bible is unique in that there are different authors, but it is 1 book.

And rarely would you read a book, get a book and like, I'm just gonna read the last chapter now you might to jump it but you miss a whole lot of detail and probably a lot of the inferences in the conclusions there's a lot of inside jokes that you would only gotten from you know and there's a lot of that in the book of Revelation so when people start opening up the revelation apart from the rest of the Bible, and then they turn to, I don't know, the news headlines or whatever they see online or whatever people have been told.

It very quickly goes downhill when you separate it from the rest of the Bible.

So the Themes and symbols of Bible prophecy retain the same meaning and relevance as when first invoked in Scripture.

So the reason, and just think about the logic of this, if you're writing this book of symbols, then when you employ the symbol, it assumes that A, you remember where it first came from and that the the thing that was outlined there is Going to be the same in this book Right that the reason there that's the whole reason you choose the symbol is because it does make sense not because it doesn't make sense So John and I believe Lord inspired him to choose symbols and images that would have a Bible interpretation to them so you could understand them.

This is sometimes called the law or principle of first mention, where it's first mention gives an information of how it's going to be used later on.

Great statement from Sunday, paragraph 2 if you'd read it please.

It says, generally speaking, the first time a concept or symbol is mentioned in the Bible, particularly in the opening chapters of Genesis, you will discover that it establishes a general understanding of that concept which will help you understand how it's being used later on.

So when something mentions, say, the serpent or the lamb or whatever the concept is, the illusion symbol, and you go back and see it, there is amazing consistency in God's Word for the use of that symbol to represent that thing it did at the very beginning.

So that gives us a sure foundation to build on.

So again that's talk point number 1, God's Word is changeless and harmonious.

Talking point number 2 now, the prophetic themes and images about Satan that we see in the book of Revelation.

So we're taking what we just talked about and we're starting to apply that now in these branches.

03 Images from Marriage

I'm Cameron DeFasio and I'm Mark Howard and this is Talking Points.

Continuing right on through our illusions, images, and symbols how to study Bible prophecy series.

Pastor Howard we're on lesson 3 this week images from marriage so I told you as we beginning of this when I look at this I don't necessarily think of all the images in you know Daniel revelation I think weddings and marriages and but there are some interesting parallels and I think you've prepared maybe even some extra credit bonus material today.

Well, this week's lesson, as you said, is on marriage in the Bible.

And the lesson focuses a lot on the relationship between God and his people, and some of the nuances of that with, you know, husband and wife and how they interact.

Has some practical tips along those lines, talks about the church in the connection with Hosea for example where God asked Hosea to marry a harlot woman representing his wayward people, and you have that kind of imagery in the Bible.

Ezekiel 16, similarly, the people of God represented as this woman.

It touches on the marriage supper of the Lamb, but not as much as I would have expected in prophecy.

And so this week we are taking, I'm taking some extra liberties if you will.

I told you beforehand that I'm going to go off script but in the same way I'm kind of going on script.

Because our lesson is illusions, images, and symbols, and then what is it there?

And so there is some marriage imagery in connection with prophecy that is especially relevant to us as Seventh-day Adventists and so I'm gonna 0 in on that this week.

So you're not going a different direction, you're going a deeper direction on the same trajectory but can you look at that specifically applied to Bible prophecy?

There are some of the things the lesson brings out that I won't be and of course the teachers at Liberty to share those things but there are some things that I've I looked through the rest of the quarterly and they didn't come up anywhere else and I thought you can't be talking about marriage and not cover these things.

Okay well I'm looking forward to that and we are already on the clock so let me just start with a word of prayer and hand the ball back over to you.

Heavenly Father, thank you so much for this day and thank you for the opportunity we have to know you and your word and study Bible prophecy and this Sabbath School quarter as we look at these images, help us to understand them clearly.

Help them not only to be intellectually grasped, but to be applied in our lives.

And bless every Sabbath School teacher and participant through this opportunity.

This week's lesson considers how marriage imagery in the Bible gives insight into Christ's work for fallen humanity.

Talking point number 1 is marriage represents the union between God and his people.

I've drawn my points mainly from Sunday's lesson and a little bit beyond into the scripture for that.

Talking point number 2, in prophecy the bride also represents a kingdom.

So that might be a new thought for some or you know it might seem contradictory.

That's interesting to say also represents so it's it's both okay and then we're drawing that from some of that from Thursday's lesson and then talking point number 3 I did not draw from the quarterly the wedding illustrates Christ work as our high priest but I have drawn this from Scripture and, you know, fundamental Adventist belief.

So those are our talking points this week.

I touched already on a little bit in, we've already talked about how God's people are often portrayed in the marriage relationship.

We talked about Hosea and Ezekiel that the lesson brings out.

Why don't you look up 2 Corinthians 11 2 which is pretty standard when we're making this, you know, we often talk about women and identifying women in Bible prophecy, and in fact we looked at this before.

2 Corinthians 11 verse 2 says, For I am jealous for you with godly jealousy, for I have betrothed you to 1 husband, that I may present you as a chaste virgin to Christ." Okay, so here's Paul speaking to the church and says that they're promised in marriage to Christ.

Romans 7, 3 and 4, Paul gives an example of our relationship to God and the law and says in Romans 7, verse 3, so then if while her husband lives she marries another man she would be called an adulteress, but if her husband dies she is free from that law.

I mean, this makes you want to dive into it.

But he says in verse 4, therefore, my brethren, you also have become dead to the law through the body of Christ, that you may be married to another, to him who was raised from the dead.

So you, the believer, are going to be married to him who was raised from the dead.

So you, the believer, are gonna be married to him who's raised from the dead, Christ.

So this imagery is all through scripture.

And again, the lesson kind of lays a foundation in that.

What's interesting though, Well, let's go to Ephesians chapter 5.

This is on the same theme, but then it's gonna, oh you have it there.

Why don't you read Ephesians 5, the whole passage.

Yeah, let me just start with verse 30 a little bit because it makes some allusion.

For we are members of his body, comma, of his flesh and of his bones, which already makes you think of the creation, the marriage, you know, right, the bone of my bone, flesh of my flesh, and he quotes that now, verse 31, for this reason a man shall leave his father and mother and be joined to his wife and the 2 shall become 1 flesh.

Verse 32, this is a great mystery, but I speak concerning Christ and the church.

So what's interesting, nevertheless, let each 1 love 1 of you in particular, so love his own wife as himself, etc.

So it's interesting, he's talking, if you go back, he's talking quite a bit about husbands love your wives thus and so, wives love your husband, but it's interesting he gets down there to verse 32 and he's like, yeah, by the way, I'm not speaking about husband and wife, I'm speaking about Christ and the Church.

And the Bible I have actually has a heading for that section called marriage, Christ and the church.

And so it starts with human marriage but it goes to the spiritual.

Series

Talking Points 2nd Quarter 2025: Allusions, Images, Symbols: How to Study Bible Prophecy

11 Ruth and Esther

Transcript

Parent Series

Sponsor

Recorded

Talking Points 2nd Quarter 2024: The Great Controversy

06 The Two Witnesses

28m

Talking Points 3rd Quarter 2022: In the Crucible with Christ

02 The Crucibles That Come

28m

Talking Points 2nd Quarter 2022 Genesis: The Creation

10 Jacob-Israel

28m

Advent HOPE - Adventist History Class

The Theological Development of Present Truth

40m

Dave Fiedler - Adventism: Past and Future

The Alpha and Omega of Apostasy

39m

Talking Points 3rd Quarter 2022: In the Crucible with Christ

04 Seeing the Goldsmith’s Face

29m

Talking Points 2nd Quarter 2025: Allusions, Images, Symbols: How to Study Bible Prophecy

07 Foundations for Prophecy

28m

Talking Points, 1st Quarter 2022. In These Last Days: The Message of the Hebrews

01 The Letter to the Hebrews and to Us

27m

Talking Points, 1st Quarter 2022. In These Last Days: The Message of the Hebrews

06 Jesus, the Faithful Priest

30m

Final Events

03 Critical Phase 2 of the National Sunday Law

1h 13m

Talking Points 2nd Quarter 2024: The Great Controversy

11 The Impending Conflict

29m

Talking Points 2nd Quarter 2025: Allusions, Images, Symbols: How to Study Bible Prophecy

09 In the Psalms Part 2

30m

Sound Doctrine