In this episode, Amanda Anguish (LMFT) and Dr. K’dee Elsen (Psychologist) are boiling down thousands of hours of counseling experience to share how you can get the most out of your therapy experience.

<p>In this episode, Amanda Anguish (LMFT) and Dr. K’dee Elsen (Psychologist) are boiling down thousands of hours of counseling experience to share how you can get the most out of your therapy experience.</p>

<p>Free sharing permitted under the Creative Commons <a rel="license" href="http://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-nc-nd/3.0/us/">BY-NC-ND 3.0 (US)</a> license.</p>

Beautiful Minds Wellness

The Brain People Podcast 2022

Daniel Binus

Powerful Tools for Healthy Grieving

A group of real practicing mental health professionals.

This podcast is a one-stop shop for all your mental health needs.

We'll give you the tools to beat depression and anxiety 1 episode at a time.

Daniel Bynas, and I'm a psychiatrist here in beautiful Auburn, California.

And I'm really excited about the guest that we have today.

And Karen has been doing grief work and grief education and coaching for about 15 years now.

And she's actually written a book called Comfort for the Day that I've really appreciated myself and I've often recommended to patients who have gleaned a lot of good material out of that.

And not only that, Karen is an amazing person and I've really appreciated getting to know her over the last couple of years as we've been able to work together.

I am so blessed to be that agent to take people from suffering and pain into wholehearted, hopeful living again.

Watching that transformation take place, being a participant of that, it's just such a blessing in my life.

It's my why I get up every day, is knowing that something that we can do to bring good education about grief and to support people through their grief, it's just, it's such a blessing.

And that's really what gets me out of bed every morning too is even though my focus is not grief, but just being a conduit of love into people's lives and watching someone go from despair and hopelessness and sadness to seeing the light start to come back in their lives.

And so really that's what we wanna talk about today is what are some of the things that we can actually do in our lives if we're in that place?

If we're in that dark place, if we're grieving, if we're suffering because of a huge loss that we've had in our lives, what are some of the things that we can actually do, practically speaking, to move out of that pit?

And so let's just start from there, Karen.

Is probably what some despairing grievers are even unaware that they can do something, that the pit is so dark and it is so hopeless and it is so lonely that the thought of, can I even do something, is almost beyond them?

So if that's who you are out there listening to us, please stay with us because we want to encourage you that yes, by just making 1 little choice at a time, your dark pit can let some light in, and it's a good thing.

But I wanna first just give a very broad umbrella view of grief.

We're talking about grief that comes from loss.

And that loss can be from the burning down of your home, your neighborhood, your community, like we have so many of them here in California.

It can be the loss of one's health physically or emotionally.

It can be the loss of relationships between parent and children.

It can be the loss of relationships and spouses.

Whatever these relationships or entities that are important in our life go awry or end, it creates a change for us.

And that change for us means we have to adjust.

And some of us adjust more easily, and some of us adjust with much more difficulty.

So I just kind of wanted to make that a clarity.

Absolutely, and I'm thinking about my life too, and I've had different losses, and it's interesting how you respond differently to different losses, sometimes ways that you don't even completely understand yourself, or you think, I would never respond that way to this sort of loss.

And I'm even thinking about when I was a child, I had a Shetland pony, and I probably was about 9 years old.

And that pony had some kind of disease where it was infecting the foot or something like that.

I didn't really understand it, of course, at the time, but all I understood is that this pony needed to be put down.

And I remember watching the vet and my dad lead this pony away and lead it up into the woods where they were going to be putting it down.

And this tremendous grief that came up in my heart.

I'd never experienced in my whole life up to that point.

I don't know if I've ever had that heart-wrenching of grief since then.

And people might say, well, that was just, you know, it was a pony.

But, you know, it's interesting how it doesn't always, it's not always the death of a person.

It seems like other things can be just as heart-wrenching sometimes for certain individuals.

Binus, who supported you through that gut-wrenching?

Did you create life commands about that pain in your life that said, oh, I guess I have to deal with this by myself.

Oh, I probably shouldn't let anybody know how sad I feel.

Or did you have an environment that you could run to somebody and weep in their arms and be held and supported and be guided through, honey, this does hurt.

You love that pony and I know you did and I'm here with you in this and understanding you.

You know, I'm very grateful to say that my mother was right there with her hands on my shoulder and for a warm hug.

But I can only imagine if someone doesn't have that, how that must feel to bottle that up and to just feel like, oh, I don't, I need to just shut up and put up, just move on with life and be strong.

And in our previous podcast, we were talking about how unhealthy that is.

And so, yeah, especially if we've kind of had this mindset or people have told us in 1 way or another that essentially you just need to get on with it, but we're not ready to get on with it.

The pain is still so intense that it's affecting our lives and really driving us into despair or other negative emotions.

What are some of the dues of healthy grieving?

Well, I really want to share the dues of healthy grieving, but I also want to acknowledge what is a very common, socially acceptable, culturally modeled way to deal with the pain in our lives.

And that is to numb it, drug it, distract it, medicate it.

And so in our lives we then, that dark pit that we might be in even now is even as it were like we are chained there because what we go to, our go-to to remedy the pain keeps us there.

So what we want to be able to consider is there a possibility that I could do a different go-to and get a different result?

So what would be 1 of the very best ways to unchain us from the addictive power of things that we have utilized to assuage our pain?

Well some of that might mean going first to a recovery, rehab kind of situation so that we can set ourselves free from that vicious cycle of darkness.

So if that is your next step, then take that next step by all means.

Yeah, I really appreciate that because I think none of us like pain.

And we naturally, even when we touch a hot stove, our hand immediately jerks back.

And I think, you know, because grief is, is painful, it is natural to try to find some way or another to escape.

And that often I've seen it in my own life and in other people's lives where it's so easy then to escape into unhealthy coping mechanisms and oftentimes that can lead to addiction.

And then that, like you said, often requires some help and getting help from the outside to break that pattern of addiction.

And interestingly enough, in my experience, the 12 steps that are used in the AA program are perfect applicable steps for our grieving hearts.

They also address the deeper pains that might have driven us into addiction.

So that application works really wonderfully.

I guess the top item of understanding grief is that it is not a disorder, a disease, or even a sign of weakness, but instead grief is an emotional and physical and spiritual necessity.

It is the price we pay for love, and it's the only cure for grief is to grieve.

Those are words from Rabbi Earl Grohlman, and his definition, his working definition of grief for me includes the whole person, you know, emotional, physical, and spiritual.

And I know Beautiful Minds is all about attending to the whole person.

Amanda Anguish

Becoming the New You: The 4 Stages of Change

Daniel Bynas and I'm your host and I have a frog in my throat.

You can see how passionate I am about this podcast because I'm still podcasting despite my vocal problems right now.

I'm joined today by my co-host Amanda Anguish and she is a licensed marriage and family therapist.

And today's topic is going to be about change.

And I think that's something that we all grapple with, struggle with from time to time.

And it's an important to understand that there's stages of change and how we can go through those.

And really, Amanda is an expert on helping people through this process.

She works with our patients in the intensive outpatient program, and she helps them understand where they're at in the process of change so that they can take those next steps.

Can you tell us a little bit about this topic and what you think would be important for us to know about it?

Yeah, 1 of the things that a therapist always has to consider is resistance.

And there is no resistance without the potential for change.

Why would I resist if I had no problem with change?

But that's, you know, a lot of people think they're ready for change but they realize, oh man, what I'm doing or what I'm feeling is attached to so many other aspects of my life and I'm not sure if I want to change those, which means I have to consider those things before I decide, do I really want to change them?

So that's why I spend time talking about change.

And I've heard it said that people are gonna generally stay the same unless it becomes more painful to stay the same than going through the pain of changing.

And so when I hear that, I'm like, yeah, that's true.

There's a pain that you have to kind of go through in order to change.

I heard a little parable once it was, I don't know the original names, but I'll just say Bill and Bob.

So Bill and Bob were sitting on Bob's porch, you know, nice little covered porch and everything.

And they're rocking back and forth in the rocking chairs.

Think of like, you know, farmer types or something.

And Bob has his hound dog, you know, laying at their feet and Bill notices as they're rocking back and forth, Hey, how come your hound dog is sort of moaning?

And, and Bob says, well, you know, there's a nail underneath them.

And Bill goes, Oh, so they're rocking back and forth.

And the hound dog howls again and sort of moans and Bill says, well, if there's a nail under him, why doesn't he just get up then?

And Bob kind of slowly answers with, it doesn't hurt bad enough yet.

Sometimes we realize something's causing us pain, but maybe not quite painful enough to actually make that change.

And the sad thing is we get desensitized to the pain too.

So we wind up putting ourselves through more pain than we need to initially.

A lot of times when we're struggling with with something we realize it's not the best over time just kind of like get used to it and like look back and you're like whoa why am I even doing this because I keep inflicting pain but it's almost like you can't stop.

So how do we, how do we actually, when we recognize like, Hey, this really is starting to cause me some pain and more pain than I want to continue to bear.

Well the interesting thing is we are actually changing as we desensitize to the pain or the struggle.

So 1 of the best things I think to do is to recognize where we used to be before we started going that direction.

And when you start to see maybe some of the things you've lost over time, some of the things that have changed for the negative, that's when that starts to motivate you.

Okay, maybe I've gone too far at this point and I don't want to keep going any further.

So in a way you're saying that, you know, change is always happening and we don't even always recognize it though.

We just slowly kind of can slip into a negative place.

And I think about, okay, there's a lot of entropy that change tends to happen towards more chaos, right?

And in other words, toward maybe a more negative state and we have to be maybe more intentional if we wanna actually make positive change.

Yeah, and that's why we hear sometimes, I'm sure you hear the same thing when somebody comes in to your office and they're like, I don't know what's going on, but I remember what it used to be like.

And this can't keep going on the same way as it was.

And that's because they recognize I'm changing to something bad and I want to change back to what was good or even better.

Or sometimes it's not even the person realizing how far they've changed in a negative way, but Maybe it's someone else that points it out, you know, cause sometimes people aren't even aware of how much pain they really are in or how far they've fallen in a negative direction.

But let's say for whatever reason, somebody gets in that mode where they're like, okay, Yeah, I got, I got, I got to change.

Well, 1 of the things that I do is just help people be aware of maybe what part of the process they're in.

Cause not Everybody starts at the very beginning.

Some of us, whether we go into treatment or we are doing something on our own, we don't even know what's going on yet.

Some people don't know what's happening and where they are, and it helps them to have somebody say, �Hey, this is where you are in the process.

Do you have you noticed or they already recognize where they are and then that's where they want to start with change.

So I like to just show people what it is.

And so I'm going to use my little stylus here.

And these are just the 4 stages of change.

If you're listening on our podcast right now, you can find this on YouTube as well.

Okay, so these are the 4 stages of change.

And the first stage is what we call unconsciously incompetent.

So when we think of unconscious, we're not talking about being knocked out or anything like that.

It's another word you could use as subconscious.

Sometimes I've shown my clients a picture of an iceberg.

I usually ask them what it looks like and some people think it's an island.

But this is my drawing of an iceberg and I'll show them that the top part of the iceberg is what we call our conscious awareness.

And the bottom part is what we call the unconscious.

Binus and I both taught the same class so we probably recognize this from the textbook.

So the unconscious part or the subconscious you could call it.

This is the part of our brains where we're holding on to information but we don't necessarily remember it.

So if I asked any of our listeners, you know, what is your name?

Well, suddenly something that was unconscious to you stored back in your mind is now suddenly conscious.

But sometimes we have things that we're dealing with, but we don't realize why we're dealing with them.

And that's why we say it's unconsciously incompetent.

I don't realize how incompetent I am or I don't realize the level of incompetence that I have in this area of my life.

K'dee Elsen Crews

Good Therapy: How to Maximize Your Therapy Experience

I'm Amanda Anguish and I'm a licensed marriage and family therapist and I'm here with my co-host.

And we're here talking about how to get the most out of your therapy sessions.

We'll do a little precursor to that too, maybe.

But we want to talk about this because so often, you know, especially if you've never been to therapy, you don't even know, 1, what to expect, what am I supposed to do?

And maybe we've watched too many movies and TV shows and we think they're all gonna be just like that.

So Katie, what is 1 of the things, 1 of the top things that people should be keeping in mind when they look for a therapist, first of all?

Well, I think the thing that comes to mind is to recognize that they have a lot more control than what they recognize.

So most people, they go and they find a therapist and they think that they're stuck.

You know, when it comes to dating, when it comes to looking for a job, right?

You mean I didn't just marry the first person that came along?

I thought you were gonna say, I just accepted the first job that came along.

You're like, do you really wanna be here, Amanda?

But when it comes to therapy, people think that they are just stuck with the first therapist.

So 1 of the key aspects is knowing that you're in control and that you can interview.

You can, you know, the same way that they ask you questions, you can ask your therapist question to see if it's a good fit.

Yes, and not all of my clients have stayed after the first session.

I've just been a hundred percent successful in all of keeping them and well, it may not be you.

No, but I like to tell my clients, therapy is like a hairdresser, you know?

If you don't like the way they cut your hair, then obviously you might want to go to somebody else, but it's always good to keep in mind if you're stuck in the 80s hairstyle, Maybe that's not a good 1 because I think the 80s are back right now if you're stuck in the 90s Hairstyle and your therapist isn't like pushing you a little bit Then maybe you also want to find a new therapist at that point as well.

So don't exit too soon Yeah, because Are you exiting because it's the therapist or are you exiting because the therapist is highlighting things in you that actually needs to be addressed?

What would your opinion be on kind of what people have to look for things to consider before they start therapy?

I think 1 of the things that I like to encourage people with is that not all therapy is the same.

Sometimes we see 1 way of therapy being done on TV or movies, like I had said before, but that's not, every therapist has kind of their own way of doing things.

You won't naturally feel like a fit with every person.

That can be for religion reasons, that can be for lifestyle reasons, but it can also be for the type of therapy.

Some therapies are more passive where the therapist sits back and does a lot of, just reflecting back what they hear, but they don't really push or they don't do that kind of thing.

So if you have a sense of what kind of issue you're dealing with, then sometimes it's good to find somebody who really works with that issue too versus just opening yourself up to every single person.

And I know just a plug for psychology today, not that every therapist is on there, but it's a website that people can go on there and kind of look for different things that therapists might excel in or be an expert in.

And that sort of thing can be helpful too.

And I think people don't spend enough time in that process, which if you think about when we're answering the question, like how to make the most out of therapy is if you start off therapy on the wrong foot, or if you started off being insecure or unsure about your therapist, then that can really just impact the rest of the future therapy journey.

Yes, and that's not to say, some people, You might live in a small town somewhere where you don't have a ton of options, but then there's also, you know, if you live in the city, you might have a plethora of options too.

But even nowadays, because of COVID, we're able to do online sessions and there's a lot of that option out there too where you do it.

I like to encourage people to actually go in and sit with their therapist.

And I know we might spend a future podcast maybe talking more in depth about this process of looking for a therapist, but thinking about more of that middle section of when they are here in therapy, what are some things that they can start, you know, working on to make sure that they get the most out of the experience?

I think 1 of the biggest things is to, you know, sometimes people go to therapy because somebody else is forcing them to go or because somebody suggested to go.

But I think 1 of the best things is to find your reason for being there.

And then be able to convey that to your therapist.

Now, your therapist might have something else that they hear and see during the course of conversation, But if you have a motivation for being there, that's a huge part in getting the most out of your therapy.

I would just wanna spend the rest of the time talking about that because, so I was doing some research on actually looking at the factors that for therapists, I was thinking, okay, how can I be a better therapist?

And I was doing the research and looking at, you know, both therapy factors, but then also, you know, treatment factors.

And then I came across this article that was saying, you know, the biggest predictor of success in therapy is actually the client and specifically how committed they are.

You mean I don't have to work so hard anymore?

It definitely does matter, the modality, the treatment, so forth.

But, and I started reflecting on like my own experience in the therapy room with my clients.

And I realized the ones that are most successful are those who are 150% committed.

I even have clients who bring a notebook and are taking notes in their notebook is their therapy notebook.

It's just the stuff I get out of this time.

And they take notes and they'll stop me and say, can you repeat that again?

Attachment Styles: The Key to Understanding Your Relationships

So attachment styles, 1 of my favorite topics actually, when I talk about attachment or think about attachment, it's actually been 1 of the most important things for me to help understand my clients and also even understand myself and my relationships.

And I don't know about you, Katie, but it, it really gives me that understanding about like, how, how can I help somebody move from maybe a dysfunctional relationship to actually a functional relationship?

I think it's if we recognize that we're social beings, right?

Connectedness is really the essence to all of our different problems, whether we see it most evidently in relationships or we see it in other aspects of being at work or interacting with a stranger on the street, but really connectedness and attachment is at the core of who we are.

Series

The Brain People Podcast 2022

Good Therapy: How to Maximize Your Therapy Experience

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